tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post3754960833830910899..comments2024-03-28T21:52:52.100-06:00Comments on Dispatches From Turtle Island: A Teaser and Recap Of Recent Developments Post UPDATEDAndrew Oh-Willekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-52659035660343093442015-09-06T02:29:57.255-06:002015-09-06T02:29:57.255-06:00Razib has some interesting posts relevant to all o...Razib has some interesting posts relevant to all of this over the last [in reference to this new paper - http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/09/02/molbev.msv181.abstract "A common genetic origin for early farmers from Mediterranean Cardial and Central European LBK cultures"]<br /><br />From Thursday:-<br />http://www.unz.com/gnxp/spaniards-are-the-descendants-of-the-first-farmers/<br /><br />Razib notes that "The gene flow into the Spaniards, and Sardinians, is Berber-like, not Middle Eastern."<br /><br />http://www.unz.com/gnxp/ghost-populations-in-our-genetic-closet/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013399855770625556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-53534397192463241022015-09-04T17:43:42.012-06:002015-09-04T17:43:42.012-06:00I'm not sure that modern EEF proportions are v...I'm not sure that modern EEF proportions are very informative in a region where we know that there was a major demic change in the early Bronze Age. Before that, the EEF proportions were probably much higher in Croatia.<br /><br />The Cardial Wave could not have diffused from North Africa rather than the Levant (I wouldn't put money in Cardial having origins in the Levant as opposed to Anatolia, the Aegean or the Balkans instead, however) because the archaeology doesn't support that and because the maritime technology in the early Neolithic probably wasn't good enough.<br /><br />I don't disagree with you that there is likely some introgression of North African DNA into Sardinia at some point. But, I think that you narrative to get it there is implausible at best and honestly, really just contradicted by non-genetic lines of evidence. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that trade and small amounts of population exchange with North Africa during the Copper Age would be a more likely hypothesis, or that the connection arose from Mesolithic migration of North Africans to Southern France where they admixed with local hunter-gatherers who in turn admixed with proto-Sardianians. But, with a little time, I'm sure one could come up with other plausible scenarios.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-44405967877420639112015-08-29T14:45:50.021-06:002015-08-29T14:45:50.021-06:00From the Lazaridis paper, EEF affinity in Europe:-...From the Lazaridis paper, EEF affinity in Europe:-<br />Maltese 93.2<br />Ashkenazi Jew 93.1<br />Sicilian 90.3<br />Sardinian 81.7<br />Spanish 80.9<br />Greek 79.2<br />Albanian 78.1<br />Tuscan 74.6<br />Bergamo 71.5<br />Pais Vasco 71.3<br />Bulgarian 71.2<br />French South 67.5<br />Basque 59.3<br />Croatian 56.1<br />Hungarian 55.8<br />French 55.4<br />Czech 49.5<br />English 49.5<br />Ukrainian 46.2<br />Orcadian 45.7<br />Belorussian 41.8<br />Norwegian 41.1<br />Icelandic 39.4<br />Scottish 39.0<br />Lithuanian 36.4<br />Estonian 32.2<br /><br />Looking at Tuscans (74.6) and Bergamo (71.5), if their high EEF affinity were due to geneflow via the Balkans, then I would expect to see far higher EEF affinity in Croatia, but that is not the case (only 56.1). <br />Rather I suggest the gene flow to N.Italy is as the HLA data has been telling me, ie via Sardinia. The HLA affinity Sardinia has with Africa is definitely ancient; I have reached this conclusion only after looking at dozens of long-range DR-DQ haplotypes from about 1500 individuals in several locations around Sardinia. I think that there is a founder effect at play. We already know that Sardinia has its own unique Y DNA haplogroup A variants so I am sure that my hunch is correct. Is it possible that Cardial Ware might have diffused from North Africa rather than the Levant? 'EEF' is some kind of mix of 'Basal Eurasian' and WHG. I have read that apparently there is a 'migration edge' from Dinka into Stuttgart. This is similar to the HLA data where Sudanese-like haplotypes in the Sardinians diffuse into Europe via N.Italy and Alps, traceable as far as Switzerland, Austria, Germany and beyond. Also I suspect that there were migrations of pastoralists directly into Europe from North Africa contemporary with or earlier than the migrations of farmers from Anatolia via the Balkans. I believe that there is genetic evidence in some Iberian and Italian cattle to support this (don't have any reference to hand).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013399855770625556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-11548229703865812042015-08-28T17:17:24.500-06:002015-08-28T17:17:24.500-06:00The space-time geography isn't right for that ...The space-time geography isn't right for that scenario.<br /><br />EEF is characteristic of first wave Neolithics in Europe - in LBK and in Cardial Pottery. Long before ancient genome data was available, it was established with the dates of large numbers of archaeological sites that farming advanced from the Balkans/Anatolian region in SE Europe more or less to the NW, and Iberia experienced the Neolithic Revolution at the tale end of that wave. Egypt/Sudan was likewise a receiver of the Fertile Crescent Neolithic that received about 1000 years later, at about the same time as the LBK/CP Neolithic wave in Europe. The Maghreb received the Neolithic later than Egypt.<br /><br />Sardinian affinity with North Africa is probably via much later maritime trade and limited population exchange, not from its first wave settlers. andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-18338822040002632992015-08-27T06:59:16.914-06:002015-08-27T06:59:16.914-06:00"the implication is that the ethnogenesis of ..."the implication is that the ethnogenesis of the EEF population that integrated European hunter-gatherers and Fertile Crescent Basal European farmer populations...happened in situ at the places where the first farmers of the Fertile Crescent Neolithic first domesticated their crops, and then had much less subsequent admixture with the European hunter-gatherers that they encountered in their migration than it would have been necessary to infer otherwise"<br /><br />I wonder if the ethnogenesis of the EEF population was actually in North Africa [Maghreb]. 'WHG' from Iberia & Maghreb mixing with 'Basal Eurasian' from Egypt/Sudan. <br />'EEF' is strong in Sardinia. The HLA B-C and DR-DQ haplotype segments of Sardinians throw up a lot of matches in Berbers, Egyptians, Sudanese, Ethiopians, Kenyans, and in a few cases Central Africa/West-Central Africa/West Africa. While others have more matches with Greeks/Macedonians/Croatians, and others with Levantine populations.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013399855770625556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-79590639704048688192015-08-22T19:02:15.898-06:002015-08-22T19:02:15.898-06:00More Balkan ancient DNA, this time from Romania.
...More Balkan ancient DNA, this time from Romania.<br /><br />http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2015/08/ancient-mtdna-from-romania.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ForWhatTheyWereWeAre+%28For+what+they+were...+we+are%29andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-28000117704432937352015-08-17T00:38:11.264-06:002015-08-17T00:38:11.264-06:00See also a paper on Ket autosomal genetics suggest...See also a paper on Ket autosomal genetics suggesting similarity between this population and Native Americans than isn't apparent in uniparental genetics.<br />http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/08/13/024554<br /><br />It also suggests that Saqqaq Paleo-Eskimos supply the non-founding population genetic component in some Na-Dene peoples (10%-16%), and may have brought language transfer to the New World.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-77293628991569406102015-08-16T21:59:47.940-06:002015-08-16T21:59:47.940-06:00More on the issue for Greek population structure b...More on the issue for Greek population structure between Greeks with and without Slavic ancestry is found http://www.unz.com/gnxp/greeks-with-slavic-ancestry-and-without/ and is related to the "Balkan question".<br /><br />Razib suggests that Western Anatolian and perhaps some Aegean Island Greeks may have escaped Slavic ancestry during the Byzantine era, while mainland Greeks would have received this contribution.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.com