tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post4924060270966105634..comments2024-03-28T19:02:22.210-06:00Comments on Dispatches From Turtle Island: Progress In Understanding Kalash Genetics And Its Linguistic ImplicationsAndrew Oh-Willekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-17390765683263602032015-07-22T15:51:46.581-06:002015-07-22T15:51:46.581-06:00Yes, it is. Indeed, I currently believe (although...Yes, it is. Indeed, I currently believe (although I can't prove definitively) that the Yamnaya spoke a non-Indo-European language, probably an ergative one.<br /><br />I also believe, but can't prove, that all of the ergative non-Indo-European languages of the Caucasus, Anatolia, and the highlands of Iran, as well as Sumerian, Minoan and Basque, are probably part of the same macro-language family at a time depth not older than the late Mesolithic era.<br /><br />I won't venture to say precisely which Caucasian language family would be most similar, or that Yamnaya was definitively the linguistic source for the Vasconic languages, although I don't rule out that possibility.<br /><br />I'm inclined to think that Caucasus to steppe language transmission is more likely, but can't rule out the reverse.<br /><br />I am thoroughly agnostic on the nature of the Harappan language, and on the nature of the first farmer LBK/Cardial Pottery languages and their relationships to each other.<br /><br />I am inclined to think the Etruscan language (and a few other non-Indo-European Aegean languages in the same family) are not related to Yamnaya and Vasconic and Caucasian languages, but not every confident of that conclusion.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-51461571515011963492015-07-22T10:12:10.709-06:002015-07-22T10:12:10.709-06:00Andrew,
So we have Cremation Appearing Both In Eur...Andrew,<br />So we have Cremation Appearing Both In Europe and India around 2000 BC as earliest examples.<br />BTW Regarding which seems now Confirmed On Yamnaya R1b-<br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.in/2015/07/high-res-r1b-tree-featuring-16-ancient.html<br />Those Yamnaya Nomads who came from Somewhere around Caucasus, is it logical to propose that Yamnaya Spoke a Caucasus related language rather than Indo-European?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-56956175809364262522015-07-21T23:15:52.081-06:002015-07-21T23:15:52.081-06:00I would have said the Balkans around 2000 BCE, but...I would have said the Balkans around 2000 BCE, but that geographic description is not very specific. I would have took look to references to determine precisely where in SE Europe the oldest cremations were located.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-70564630007937287702015-07-21T22:56:30.041-06:002015-07-21T22:56:30.041-06:00BTW Andrew I have something to ask you, Which is t...BTW Andrew I have something to ask you, Which is the oldest example of Cremation in Europe is it in the Carpathian Basin around 2000 BC?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-68652277297175585592015-07-21T22:34:01.886-06:002015-07-21T22:34:01.886-06:00Inhumation Practices were common earlier but later...Inhumation Practices were common earlier but later Cremation became popular and dominant like around 1500 BC Greeks preferred inhumation but some centuries after it changed,Phoenicians practiced both cremation and burial. Roman philosopher Cicero considered Inhumation to be an archaic and probably original though in his time Cremation was very dominant. Yes It happened roughly in similar time frame and in some manner it was when the IE spread happened in various areas and it was already the dominant practice by that time.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-73720054500116340032015-07-21T11:59:35.099-06:002015-07-21T11:59:35.099-06:00Avestans were Indo-Iranian and it is fair to say t...Avestans were Indo-Iranian and it is fair to say that Sky Burial is a piece with cremation philosophically.<br /><br />How can you know that it is a local development with a local change in philosophy when it happens throughout the IE world, a roughly similar time frames, and nowhere the IE has not yet arrived (for example, Western Europe) until IE arrives. You need evidence to support that position.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-38130545347820498462015-07-21T01:09:41.408-06:002015-07-21T01:09:41.408-06:00Yes they appear but for example not in India from ...Yes they appear but for example not in India from outside as i said its a local development with a change in the philosophy although traces of Cremation in Harappa is there as i mentioned, Avestans practiced open burials or Sky Burials if i'm not wrong and even the Sintashta had Burial customs, yes Rigveda is mostly of 2000 bc-1500 bc period and the Practice of Cremating is not of PIE origin and it developed later roughly in similar time frame and it is related mostly to Philosophy not migration.<br />I don't know but Indian Iron age likely started in South India around 2200 bc as per latest discoveries where we also find most of the Iron Deposits and another thing is that we don't find Iron Mentioned in Rigveda but only in later texts, the term Ayas means simply metal or something strong.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-32814641458052090612015-07-21T00:37:23.024-06:002015-07-21T00:37:23.024-06:00Cremation appears in Greece with the Mycenians, in...Cremation appears in Greece with the Mycenians, in the Balkans with the first Indo-Europeans there, in Anatolia with the Hittites, in France with the Indo-European Urnfielders, in South Asia with the Aryans, and in Iran with the Indo-Iranians. Yes, cremation was a cultural thing, but it was in particular an Indo-European specific cultural thing. This is a practice that the Indo-Europeans brought to the party that was not practiced by the Harappans. The Rig Veda and the Cemetery H mix indicate that it was present at the moment of transition. The Etruscans were a pilot wave, who were one of the last non-Indo-European cultures to survive in Europe because they emulated key Indo-European practices.<br /><br />Cemetery H is also coincident with the arrival of iron goods, just as in the case of the Hittites.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-79424342111915645392015-07-20T23:02:44.408-06:002015-07-20T23:02:44.408-06:00''Re Cemetery H, one of the real distingui...''Re Cemetery H, one of the real distinguishing factors here is the litmus test of cremation which appears almost everywhere at just around the moment that Indo-Europeans start to arrive.''<br />It is a local development with no trail from outside its people also show similar biological affinity and ''About cremation, in Harappan sites there are often pots with ashes and bones, but rarely human. A work on Kalibangan's cemetery observes that the tombs were too few for all the population, so cremation could be a way of managing the dead, but there were also fractional burials after exposure. Clear cremation is present in Cemetery H at Harappa, and it can be connected with a different ideology, as in Europe and the Near East. It is thought that cremation is connected with a more spiritual view, where the body has no more importance and the soul has to leave it. It is possible that it is connected with the belief in reincarnation, but not only, in Homeric Greece it was believed that cremation made possible that the soul enters the Hades. But in various cultures inhumation and cremation are found together, for instance the Etruscans introduced again the inhumation burials only for the elite, while the common people continued cremation as in the Villanovan period. Also in Hittite Anatolia inhumation and cremation are found sometimes in the same cemeteries, and also Greeks and Romans practiced both. See here: https://www.academia.edu/1906015/Inhumation_and_Cremation_how_burial_practices_are_linked_to_beliefs<br />In Rigveda it is also mentioned as you will see in that Wiki that Both Cremation and Burial were likely practiced by the Aryans so its most likely a cultural thing nothing much for any invisible migration.<br />David recently Posted on Afanasevo and CWC with R1a and in most probable scenario Aafanasevo will be R1a Dominant.<br />Okay but i will need more time...Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-12809919562300733312015-07-20T22:31:45.096-06:002015-07-20T22:31:45.096-06:00Re Cemetery H, one of the real distinguishing fact...Re Cemetery H, one of the real distinguishing factors here is the litmus test of cremation which appears almost everywhere at just around the moment that Indo-Europeans start to arrive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemetery_H_culture<br /><br />See, e.g., R1b http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2014/06/new-archaic-y-dna-r1b-in-southern.html and also the identity of the two contemporaneous cultures genetically using autosomal DNA. I believe that there were was direct typing in one of the two big ancient DNA studies from Nature.<br /><br />I've written a lot about PIE and my hypothesis isn't really new. One of the better ways to examine it is to click on the "language" tag on this post and to skim through the posts with that tag that are relevant.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-75235600835395544212015-07-20T22:03:46.283-06:002015-07-20T22:03:46.283-06:00^your^yourNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-79782056852013856782015-07-20T22:03:06.413-06:002015-07-20T22:03:06.413-06:00// a few centuries before the earliest archaeologi...// a few centuries before the earliest archaeological evidence (Cemetery H), of Indo-European appearance in South Asia//<br />Cemetery H is a local derivative nothing else with some new innovations, please read things scientifically before concluding.<br />//The long standing hypothesis that the Y-DNA R1b dominated Afanasievo and Yamnaya peoples were linguistically Indo-European is increasingly ill supported//<br />Afanasevo is R1b dominated? do we yet have any Y-DNA from there yet? the more likely Scenario is that Afanasevo will be R1a Dominated.<br />BTW where can i find tour new hypothesis on PIE?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.com