tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post8556020308341996499..comments2024-03-28T19:02:22.210-06:00Comments on Dispatches From Turtle Island: KhoeSan Genetic Diversity Including Archaic Admixture From A New Archaic Homo SpeciesAndrew Oh-Willekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-90468651370132305782016-09-16T17:11:21.997-06:002016-09-16T17:11:21.997-06:00@Andrew
West Eurasians today are not genetically ...@Andrew<br /><br />West Eurasians today are not genetically closer to East Eurasians than they were during the Upper Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic or more recent pre-modern times, because in all these times West Eurasians have been by and large mixing among themselves rather than with other races.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-7177651663935786682016-09-15T18:14:00.777-06:002016-09-15T18:14:00.777-06:00@Onur.
"West Eurasians, whether in Europe ...@Onur. <br /><br />"West Eurasians, whether in Europe or the Near East and whether with or without the Basal Eurasian admixture, have been a distinct modern human group from East Eurasians since more than 40,000 years ago."<br /><br />So what? <br /><br />Today, the FST between Europeans and East Asians was about 0.100.<br /><br />Then, the FST between Iranian farmers and Levantine farmers was about 0.100.<br /><br />This is not inconsistent with West Eurasians being closer to each other than West Eurasians were from East Eurasians. Perhaps the FST between WHG and East Asians at the time was 0.200? Also, FST isn't additive.<br /><br />You can also have a triangular relationship as well. It is perfectly possible for every combination of Iranian farmers, Levantine farmers and East Asians at a given time to have an FST of 0.100 from each other.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-34701503114876005012016-09-14T17:46:11.973-06:002016-09-14T17:46:11.973-06:00@Andrew
Davidski is right. West Eurasians, whethe...@Andrew<br /><br />Davidski is right. West Eurasians, whether in Europe or the Near East and whether with or without the Basal Eurasian admixture, have been a distinct modern human group from East Eurasians since more than 40,000 years ago. Looking at all the available modern human ancient genome results or just the results of <a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.tr/2016/09/the-eurasians-idiots-guide.html" rel="nofollow">this analysis of Davidski</a> will show that to be so. Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-34524495167266551022016-09-12T13:46:26.310-06:002016-09-12T13:46:26.310-06:00@Davidski, I'm not clear if you disagree with ...@Davidski, I'm not clear if you disagree with my interpretation of the cited paper (and to be honest, I haven't read it very carefully and am mostly relying on Razib and a couple of other blog summaries of it and the abstract of the paper for the conclusion you disagree with) or if you disagree with the conclusion reached by the cited paper, and if so, if this is due to disagreements with the interpretation of their data, or with flaws you perceive in the data that they rely upon. <br /><br />Whatever the case, I'm interested to know why you think that the commentators, the paper's interpretation, or the data in the paper, as the case may be, is wrong. I don't have any strong philosophical commitment to this apparent result, but also don't have any strong reason to doubt its authors' conclusions.<br /><br />The relevant language from the paper itself (in part) is as follows:<br /><br />200 Extreme regional differentiation in the ancient Near East<br />201 PCA on present-day West Eurasian populations (Methods) (Extended Data Fig. 1) on which<br />202 we projected the ancient individuals (Fig. 1b) replicates previous findings of a Europe-Near<br />203 East contrast along the horizontal Principal Component 1 (PC1) and parallel clines (PC2) in<br />both Europe and the Near East (Extended Data Fig. 1)7,8,13 204 . Ancient samples from the Levant<br />205 project at one end of the Near Eastern cline, and ancient samples from Iran at the other. The<br />two Caucasus Hunter Gatherers (CHG)9 206 are less extreme along PC1 than the Mesolithic and<br />207 Neolithic individuals from Iran, while individuals from Chalcolithic Anatolia, Iran, and<br />208 Armenia, and Bronze Age Armenia occupy intermediate positions. Qualitatively, the PCA<br />209 has the appearance of a quadrangle whose four corners are some of the oldest samples:<br />210 bottom-left: Western Hunter Gatherers (WHG), top-left: Eastern Hunter Gatherers (EHG),<br />211 bottom-right: Neolithic Levant and Natufians, top-right: Neolithic Iran. This suggests the<br />212 hypothesis that diverse ancient West Eurasians can be modelled as mixtures of as few as four streams of ancestry related to these populations, which we confirmed using qpWave7 <br />213<br />214 (Supplementary Information, section 7).<br />215 We computed squared allele frequency differentiation between all pairs of ancient West<br />Eurasians29 216 (Methods; Fig. 3; Extended Data Fig. 3), and found that the populations at the<br />217 four corners of the quadrangle had differentiation of FST=0.08-0.15, comparable to the value<br />218 of 0.09-0.13 seen between present-day West Eurasians and East Asians (Han)<br />219 (Supplementary Data Table 3). In contrast, by the Bronze Age, genetic differentiation<br />220 between pairs of West Eurasian populations had reached its present-day low levels (Fig. 3):<br />221 today, FST is ≤0.025 for 95% of the pairs of West Eurasian populations and ≤0.046 for all<br />222 pairs. These results point to a demographic process that established high differentiation<br />223 across West Eurasia and then reduced this differentiation over time.<br /><br />(CORRECTED CUT AND PASTE ISSUE)andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-24132265327364751752016-09-12T08:53:58.274-06:002016-09-12T08:53:58.274-06:00The paper cited was authored by some of the bigges...The paper cited was authored by some of the biggest names in the field, Lazaridis, Patterson, Pinhasi, Reich et al.<br /><br />Have you told them that they have got it wrong, and what has been their response?MChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346603063208855404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-69560575669235786712016-09-12T00:56:10.624-06:002016-09-12T00:56:10.624-06:00I don't need to follow the links. I have the d...I don't need to follow the links. I have the data, and I know it's not true.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-28144354370739119312016-09-11T12:47:48.119-06:002016-09-11T12:47:48.119-06:00Follow the links.Follow the links.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-47528364218594547902016-09-10T18:51:48.062-06:002016-09-10T18:51:48.062-06:00In the Middle East, populations in the Zargos Moun...<i>In the Middle East, populations in the Zargos Mountain of Western Iran were as distinct from those in the Levant as Europeans are from East Asians today. In other words, there were distinct racial divisions in the Middle East over distances of just a few hundred miles.</i><br /><br />Where did you read this?<br /><br />It's not true.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com