tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post9015596359869499024..comments2024-03-27T22:28:06.861-06:00Comments on Dispatches From Turtle Island: Data Points About The Mostly Iberian Y-DNA Clade R1b-DF27Andrew Oh-Willekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-47205529428014466052017-08-18T16:20:36.325-06:002017-08-18T16:20:36.325-06:00Interesting stuff.
"Andrew has been a staunc...Interesting stuff.<br /><br />"Andrew has been a staunch supporter of the hypothesis of a Basque-related origin of Y-DNA haplogroup R-M269 among extant Europeans (and, concomitantly, the indigeneity and genetic isolation of Basques),"<br /><br />I do not assert that the Basque are indigenous to Iberia (linguistically it is hard to know with a Roman conquerer adopting the Greek language scenario being possible) Instead, I have asserted that:<br /><br />* The proto-Basque men were copper age or early Bronze Age migrants from some place in the vicinity (not very specifically delineated) of the Southern Pontic-Caspian Steppe to Crete and/or the Balkans, whose genes spread with Bell Beaker expansion. I absolutely agree that R1b-M269 that is the source of the R1b there now did not arrive in Western Europe in either the Upper Paleolithc, or Mesolithic, or first wave Neolithic.<br /><br />* The Basques have had minimal IE admixture in the post-Bell Beaker era. <br /><br />* The Celtic languages date to the very late Bronze Age or early Iron Age and replaced the languages previously spoken where Celtic languages were spoken.<br /><br />* The language shift to IE Celtic did not involve much more of a demic component than about 50% of the Y-DNA R1a percentages in these regions.<br /><br />* The languages replaced by IE Celtic were quite likely Vasconic.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-22240217398676144782017-08-18T05:31:56.562-06:002017-08-18T05:31:56.562-06:00Lamet (Cai et al. 2011)
2/35 = 5.7% C-M130
1/35 = ...Lamet (Cai et al. 2011)<br />2/35 = 5.7% C-M130<br />1/35 = 2.9% O-M324(xM7, M134)<br />2/35 = 5.7% O-M7<br />30/35 = 85.7% O-M95(xM88)<br /><i>[The Lamet or Khəmēt of Laos are an ethnic group that speaks a language related to the Palaung-Wa group but isolated or distinctive within that group. They appear to retain a high frequency of O-M95(xM88), although higher resolution testing is necessary to prove whether they are direct linguistic heirs of Proto-Palaung-Wa.]</i><br /><br />Bit (Cai et al. 2011)<br />1/28 = 3.6% NO-M214(xM175, M128, P43, M46) [LLY22g+]<br />3/28 = 10.7% O-M134(xM117)<br />9/28 = 32.1% O-M117<br />15/28 = 53.6% O-M95(xM88)<br /><i>[The Bit are another ethnic group in Laos who have some linguistic similarities with the Palaung-Wa group, though perhaps not so clear-cut as the affinities of the Lamet with that group. Again, higher resolution testing should be performed to clarify how many of their O-M95(xM88) lineages have been inherited directly from their linguistic forebears and how many have been assimilated from more populous surrounding ethnic groups.]</i><br /><br />People of the Palaung-Wa group who have been tested as part of autosomal clustering analyses have appeared to be a composite of ancestries of Mainland Southeast Asian (<i>i.e.</i> probable Austroasiatic) affinity and Mainland East Asian (roughly "Chinese," though it is also predominant among peripheral peoples like the Tibetans and the Koreans) affinity in approximately equal proportion. The Ava sample of Cai et al. 2011 provides an example of a linguistic community that has completely (or nearly so) replaced what was probably the Y-DNA carried by the original speakers of the community's language with the Y-DNA of some foreign incomers while maintaining linguistic continuity to a great extent and also their autosomal heritage in dilution.Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-84618567256391111392017-08-18T05:29:07.824-06:002017-08-18T05:29:07.824-06:00This is a bit off topic, but, because Andrew has b...This is a bit off topic, but, because Andrew has been a staunch supporter of the hypothesis of a Basque-related origin of Y-DNA haplogroup R-M269 among extant Europeans (and, concomitantly, the indigeneity and genetic isolation of Basques), I would like to bring his attention to the Palaung-Wa peoples, who presently inhabit some areas from southern Yunnan in China through eastern Myanmar and northwestern Laos to northern Thailand.<br /><br />The Palaung-Wa languages are classified as a branch of the Austroasiatic languages, which have been associated with Y-DNA haplogroup O-M95 on the basis of the isolated peoples of the Nicobar Islands (apparently 100% O-M95, though samples analyzed so far have been small in number) and the peripheral Kolarian/Munda-related peoples of India, who presumably could not have got their high frequencies of O-M95 Y-DNA from any source besides their Austroasiatic-speaking ancestors. Most Austroasiatic-speaking populations in Southeast Asia also have exhibited O-M95 Y-DNA with high frequency, especially tribal minorities living in parts of Laos or Cambodia. There really seems to be little evidence that would contradict the hypothesis of an origin of the Austroasiatic languages in a population that bore (mainly or exclusively) O-M95 Y-DNA.<br /><br />However, samples of extant Palaung-Wa-speaking peoples have tended to exhibit greatly reduced frequencies of O-M95 Y-DNA:<br /><br />Ava (Cai et al. 2011)<br />2/29 = 6.9% C-M130<br />2/29 = 6.9% K-M9(xO-M175, P-M45)<br />3/29 = 10.3% O-M175(xM119, M95, M122)<br />13/29 = 44.8% O-M122(xM7, M134)<br />1/29 = 3.4% O-M134(xM117)<br />8/29 = 27.6% O-M117<br /><i>[O-M95 is completely absent from this sample of Ava, who comprise a subgroup of the Wa people.]</i><br /><br />De'ang from Luxi, Yunnan (Yang et al. 2005)<br />2/16 = 12.5% F-M89(xK-M9)<br />3/16 = 18.8% K-M9(xO1a-M119, O2a-M95, O3-M122, P-M45)<br />2/16 = 12.5% O3-M122(xO3a3b-M7, O3a3c-M134)<br />7/16 = 43.8% O3a3c-M134<br />2/16 = 12.5% O2a-M95(xO2a1-M88)<br /><i>[O-M95 is not particularly frequent in this sample of De'ang or Palaung from Yunnan. Their K-M9(xO1a-M119, O2a-M95, O3-M122, P-M45) is probably some sort of haplogroup N-M231 Y-DNA.]</i><br /><br />Lawa (east) from Northern Thailand (Brunelli et al. 2017)<br />14/25 = 56.0% N-M231<br />4/25 = 16.0% O-PK4(xM111)<br />1/25 = 4.0% O-M111<br />6/25 = 24.0% O-M324(xM7, M134)<br /><i>[Only 20% probable members of O-M95 even including the O-M111 singleton, who may not have an originally Lawa paternal lineage.]</i><br /><br />Wa from Shuangjiang, Yunnan (Yang et al. 2005)<br />4/31 = 12.9% C-M130<br />1/31 = 3.2% F-M89(xK-M9)<br />4/31 = 12.9% K-M9(xO1a-M119, O2a-M95, O3-M122, P-M45)<br />7/31 = 22.6% O3-M122(xO3a3b-M7, O3a3c-M134)<br />8/31 = 25.8% O3a3c-M134<br />7/31 = 22.6% O2a-M95(xO2a1-M88)<br /><i>[Again, not too much O-M95. Like the De'ang, most of the K-M9(xO1a-M119, O2a-M95, O3-M122, P-M45) Y-DNA among the Wa appears to be some kind or kinds of N-M231. Most of their C-M130 appears to be some sort of C2-M217(xP39, M48, M407).]</i><br /><br />Blang (Cai et al. 2011)<br />8/52 = 15.4% C-M130<br />3/52 = 5.8% K-M9(xO-M175, P-M45)<br />5/52 = 9.6% O-M175(xM119, M95, M122)<br />11/52 = 21.2% O-M122(xM7, M134)<br />3/52 = 5.8% O-M134(xM117)<br />6/52 = 11.5% O-M117<br />16/52 = 30.8% O-M95(xM88)<br /><i>[O-M95 appears to be somewhat more frequent among the Blang people, but it does not contain a majority of males even among them.]</i><br /><br />Bulang from Shuangjiang, Yunnan (Yang et al. 2005)<br />2/28 = 7.1% C-M130<br />1/28 = 3.6% F-M89(xK-M9)<br />5/28 = 17.9% K-M9(xO1a-M119, O2a-M95, O3-M122, P-M45)<br />2/28 = 7.1% O3-M122(xO3a3b-M7, O3a3c-M134)<br />4/28 = 14.3% O3a3c-M134<br />14/28 = 50.0% O2a-M95(xO2a1-M88)<br /><i>[Half of this sample of Bulang/Blang belong to O-M95. That's certainly not a low percentage, but neither is it particularly high if one compares it with Austroasiatic-speaking tribes in Laos, Cambodia, or India.]</i><br /><br />Lawa (west) from Northern Thailand (Brunelli et al. 2017)<br />1/25 = 4.0% D-M15<br />1/25 = 4.0% N-M231<br />18/25 = 72.0% O-PK4(xM111)<br />5/25 = 20.0% O-M117<br /><i>[Most of the O-PK4(xM111) individuals should belong to O-M95(xM111). Perhaps this sample of Lawa from the extreme northwest of Thailand might contain a greater percentage of males with original Palaung-Wa Y-DNA.]</i>Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315236707728759521.post-47959728702440542002017-08-18T00:11:31.895-06:002017-08-18T00:11:31.895-06:00You'll notice too that the Barcelona Beakers w...You'll notice too that the Barcelona Beakers were around 50% R1b, but had little to no Steppe ancestry. (Although no resolution below M269). But is nevertheless in the diversity epicenter you mention for DF27. Of course this is in light of the low CHG problem in BA Portugal. bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.com